"this wiki's lore/story sections have been thoroughly vandalized with copious amounts of head-canon and logic leaps"
Im having a bit of fun because someone seems to be forgetting the state of this wiki three years ago with pages filled with incomplete paragraphs, 0 sources and youtube schizo lore theories passed as fact but let's forget right i guess it was perfectly fine the way it was before.
墓王 The title of Nito is literaaly "Grave/Tomb King" king because thats the same term used to referr to the "Lord" Souls (王のソウル ie King Soul) and Tomb because the Skull Lantern refers to the Tomb of the giants as Nito's domain.... he's literally the King of the Tomb... contextually accurately so
The "self-proclaimed" accurate translations corrects dozens of errors, at least a dozen "official translations" leave out entire phrases of the japanese text (How im supposed to use it as sources when they removed a phrase because the official translators felt like it or completely reshape reality... turning Gwyndolin into "a god of the old royal family" .... how do i use it as a source to say that indeed Gwyndolin became "Chief God" and not "a god"?)
"Story sections should be divided by game" and now im laughing... because good luck writing Gwyndolin page without the Inversal Ring description or Nameless King page without the things from the first game... but i guess you can try making a page for every single character from DS1 mentioned in DS3 with their separate section good luck in creating paragraphs that make any sense and you can start anytime all yours
(Now we're saying that the lore of the games is disconnected because of personal interpretations and "spoilers" as if the game hadn't been out for an entire decade and the lore section can simply be skipped over)
Things are not personal theories, enforced headcanons etc, everything in the lore sections has been directly sourced, things are there referring to direct descriptions and things present in the game.
"And all of them have assumptions/interpretations some user came with and is labeling them as canon."
No, they are defined as such under the explict label of "Theories"
"WHERE DOES IT SAY GWYNDOLIN IS THE CHILD OF GWYN AND PRISCILLA"
Maybe, try to read below? Where there are four points with explicit sources and explanations to the points
"And I check the edit history and it is the same user AndreaPz01 who is using his headcanon and interpretation and using it as confirmed canon."
Please this is untrue and misleading
You seem to be confusing someone's else (without a profile) recent editing with my writing that has been going on for two years with a proper format and sourcing work.
There's a section of lore on its page with sources for every statement :)
But to speculate upon its origins its possibile that since the souls (and thus wills and memories) of those that linked the Flame returned to it they continued to accumulate sharing their common goal of preserving It until they became a literal entity, probably they possessed someone trying to link it and used their body, like with the Old Ones.
Given the fact that its already been proved how the Nameless King is Gwyn's firstborn and the lore about this character has already been filled under its rightful place i wonder if it was possible to either take down the useless page or simply move/redirect it ... to avoid continuing confusion over a thing thats already been fixed.
Thanks to the moderators willing to help.
I wanted to thank all the people who correct what I write. My English isn't the best and I don't have much time to double check all the texts so your contribution is greatly appreciated :)
Im reading this only now because i founded the same concept for a "conceptual" sequel really interesting.
But i wanted to correct some things to allow you to speculate properly.
Time is not "convoluted" but STAGNANT. It's a bad translation from the japanese. Solaire dialogue and Soapstone should say stagnant not convoluted. This has been discussed already in the past years but think of it like this.
You already know that light=time. Now the source of light, time everything, every form of "Disparity" it's the flame ... as the Fire Fades its not that time becomes a mess but rather stagnate around the First Flame since its the first area where the effects are felt. There are no multiple universe or timelines but rather entities can "travel" through time because every "time" starts to melt together near the Flame.
At the end of DS3 when the effects are at the extreme because of all the past innatural linkings even space itself starts to "accumulate" near the Kiln like it's a black hole.
Also sorry but there are no cycles. When you enter an Age of Dark you simply can't go back to that of the Ancients. The Dark Soul it's still a part of the First Flame and thus can generate life and light. But the Dark Soul keeps fragmenting without losing power and so the dark is infinite. Every human that was born for centuries and centuries had a Dark Soul but never lost power.
The "Age of Dark" at the end of Dark Souls 3 it's a more complex thing than a simple flame go out and humans are free. The world is at a point where the dark soul itself has been corrupted because of the darksign containing it and leaving it to rot. The plan of Londor is to freeze time, contain the First Flame inside the Dark Lord so they can manipulate time without letting the world rot and decay further. It's probably the only thing they could come up with to prevent an Age of the Deep (see the Murkmen and Deep sorceries).
@OOAforward cant be she's too important for Gwyndolin
Remember that he literally buildt a Church where She was worshipped even if Irithyll was made of half-gods
Yorshka is simply another child Priscilla had during DS2 ... Just like the Painter
Oceiros' Soul allows you to make Seath's weapon and sorcery because he literally wanted to become like Seath "Oceiros went mad trying to harness his royal blood for a greater purpose, leading him to the heretics of the Grand Archives, where he discovered the twisted worship of Seath the paledrake."
The message of being able to create his weapon and magic from Oceiros soul is pointing out that his transformation was successfull and the king reached an advanced state close to his ideal "Seath's research seemed to strike a chord with old Big Hat who, in his mad, disrobed state, made divine works such as this, his own. Oceiros was no doubt edified by this."
Aldritch Soul confirms it because its the same logic ... by giving Priscilla's signature weapon with his soul the text its implying something.
"Aldrich dreamt as he slowly devoured the God of the Darkmoon. In this dream, he perceived the form of a young, pale girl in hiding." Aldrich is dreaming about a pale girl in hiding ... and with this thoughts you can create Priscilla's weapon ... do you think they made this randomly or again to imply something the same way Oceiros's soul does? It seems like we agree that there's a least a connection between Gwyndolin and Priscilla the means doesnt matter.
Now we can indeed be sure of their relationship ... Gwyndolin and Yorshka both have draconic traits but the thing is their brothers ... "A sacred chime belonging to Yorshka. Her brother, the former knight captain, presented her with this medium together with another gift: her name." But she can't be a daughter of Gwyn because Filianore is the last one "For the pygmies, who took the dark soul, the Great Lord gifted the Ringed City, an isolated place at world's end, and his beloved youngest daughter, promising her that he would come for her when the day came."
This means Yorshka and Gwyndolin share the same mother and both inherited draconic traits from her (since i don't remember Gwyn having those)
"I'm not saying it's weird that he opposes the Darkwraiths. I'm saying it's weird that he does that and then seemingly doesn't interact with the abundance of humanity they harbor, if we assume that he, and his magic, does in fact have this inherent connection to the Dark." How could the last god left in Anor Londo and last son of Gwyn ever think of interacting with the Darkness in a way different than crushing it as you provided plenty of examples.
Gwyndolin being a male was in fact kept a secret because otherwise Lloyd would not have taken the Throne and title of King of the gods if they knew there was another son of Gwyn "A divine ring granted to the Darkmoon Gwyndolin in his youth. Causes males to perform female actions, and vice-versa. Gwyndolin was raised like a daughter" "The power of the moon was strong in Gwyndolin, and thus he was raised as a daughter" Gwyndolin was dressed as a girl since birth and raised to behave like a girl ... everything else you said about Gwyn is right
The Nameless King is Gwyn's Firstborn
"A dragon hunting weapon from the age of the gods. The earliest form of the cross spear, serving as both sword and spear.
Its owner was the Nameless King and deific hunter of dragons. The swordspear is imbued with lightning, of which he was the heir."
He hunted dragons before the Age of Fire and he was a god that inherited "lightning" .... but if this wasn't enough "The Nameless King was once a dragon-slaying god of war," he was also a War god that took part in the war against the dragons ... but if this wasnt enough "This golden crown, buried amidst long strands of bristling ash, is said to closely resemble that of the First Lord." he wears the same crown of Gwyn meaning that he inherited the throne
"Once a slayer of dragons, the former king and wargod tamed a dragon" he was both a king (of what if not Anor Londo?) and a God of War and a slayer of dragons ... this is the most direct confirmations you'll ever see in Dark Souls this is overwhelming logic.
He was a God of War of Anor Londo that took part in the War against the Dragons and inherited the lightning, wears Gwyn armor and became a king but now is "nameless" (these are all facts taken from the descriptions above)
In the end sadly this wiki invites entire sections of lore that are written without sources and are incomplete, confused and incoherent or with terms like "It's implied and its possible" ... examples are even the most searched pages like: Furtive Pygmy, Oceiros, First Flame, Gwyn etc ... entire paragraphs have things like "Although not explicitly stated, it is implied" so its logical that someone coming here for the first time would think that indeed speculations is accepted into ==Lore==
Sorry for my english, hope everything i write is understandable
@Little Jiba3 because Aldrich Is absorbing Gwyndolin's soul and so he's dreaming about the god's memories and emotions
The Power to create artifacts related to the soul is an enstablished fact but your idea of learning to create objects from dreams is out of the blue, you can do the objects from Aldrich soul because he's devouring Gwyndolin and has his soul inside as proved by the fact that you can also create the bow you created with his soul in DS1
And no, the pale girl in hiding is only Priscilla... Because Yorshka had never been characterized as having been hiding or needing to hide and most importantly she has not the power of Lifehunt ... You can literally create Priscilla weapon from his souls i dont know what other proof Is needed.
And if you admit that for you its Yorshka and She learned the ability from Priscilla then you have to admit Priscilla Is also Gwyndolin's mother
Because Yorshka is Gwyndolin sister and this Is a fact ... But Gwyn cant be the father because the "last born child" of Gwyn Is Gwyndolin and her "last born daughter" Is Filianore ... Again its pure logic based on sources
Otherwise who are Gwyndolin and Yorshka's parents since they are sibling but only their mother Is in common?
@GEONEgaming what in this game's lore would be "explicit confirmation" when we know even description and dialogue can lie ?
Nothing about them is stretched since they are logical ... And they are accepted by the very sources they provide.
I will move the section inside a "Theories" subsection but the sources are still logically explaining a fact.
@GEONEgaming
Speculation become a fact when there are 6 different sources supporting it.
I can create connections because they can become facts ... Because if i create a connection and they dont do It then everything is speculative and we can be sure of nothing.
The lore is mostly clear when we have correct translations ... And some things needs to be accepted for things to make sense, otherwise we would only provide pages with the lore section stating to lines without meaning.
I agree about the wiki having to keep factual elements ... But if you hadnt noticed the entire wiki, in particolar regarding lore, lacks even basic sources and is full of half-build frases without expansion or support behind them ... Making It seems this wiki accepts and welcome outdated infos, incorrect and unfinished descriptions.
To call speculation what instead is supported by sources would be incoherent.
@Little Jiba3 enough for his greedy ass to have everything under controll
@Little Jiba3 he wouldnt ... they were his archnemesis
He would with Priscilla since she's a crossbreed and he would likely want to seize her power for himself with a child he could manipulate to serve the interests of the gods
The Soul logic works ... because in Dark Souls III you forge things with are forged with the souls of characters ... i dont understand the thing with Sif as it doesnt make any sense but Oceiros simply became close to Seath by becoming a being similar to a dragon and aspiring to become like him, everything is addressed in his descriptions.
"Imply some relationship" ... and what would this relationship be if he thinks about her while being devoured? She cant be his daughter so what other possible relationship is possible if not mother ?
Yes Moon is a natural type of magic but its being associated EVERY SINGLE TIME with Seath, the Moonlight was cited not for the scaling but for the moon magic associated, for Gwyndolin to become a strong moon sorcerer he has to have a natural magical moon connection as it is stated that he had right upon birth in his robes.
If you think Dark Sun is fantasy jargon then its up to you because he was raised and educated by Gwyn to follow his ideals why would he even want to not oppose the darkwraiths ... the story of dark souls is about humans being indoctrinated by the gods to act against their own nature so Gwyndolin having Dark powers but acting against Dark agents make perfectly sense as he identified as a god.
Yes Gwyndolin is weak to Occult because he's half god since Gwyn is his father ... but Priscilla can't be half god ... because why would the gods fear her and isolate her if she's part of their own ... Gwyn actually raised and kept Gwyndolin alive even if he had a frail and disgusting appearance so why not keep Priscilla if she was part of their clan ... Seath was a Duke and Shira, her daughter, was well enstablished in the ranks of Anor Londo so much as to serve Gwyn's daughter so why another daughter of Seath and a god would be called a "abomination against all existence" ?
Gwyn's idea is not convoluted ... his son was exiled and erased from history for allying himself with dragons ... why would he want for his other son, that was part-dragon, to have a chance at the throne? And again what would be the logic in raising him like a girl if not for him to not have the throne ?
Instead of bringing the term "possible" or "impliyed" i actually used a wide range of sources ... if there's even one point that is able to confute them i'll be very glad to remove it :) ... Also Lifehunt Scythe in DSIII being able to be crafted from Gwyndolin's Soul inside of Aldritch is a 100% proof of him being her descendant
