This seems unnecessary. Optional means that you do not need to kill the boss in order to complete the game. If you do not meet their criteria, then you don't have to fight them in order to win. Neither of these bosses NEED to be killed to win. For example, the Taurus Demon is considered optional, despite you "needing" to kill him if you don't have the master key.

Also, there is only two examples of these. Creating a new listing for only two things seems pointless.

I'd say an optional boss is one that can be avoided using any means necessary. Well, not starting gifts though, but using means during the game, cuz I didnt even know Taurus was optional. Which would put Priscilla with the optionals, as her fight, and even her entire area is optional, especially if u aggro her only after talking to Gwyndillusion. As for Aldia, I would still keep him as an optional boss, since you can still beat the game without beating him, and you'd have to actually prolong the game if you wanna fight him.

That Taurus Demon though, he should not be optional. I mean, that just sounds like its assuming that everyone chooses the master key starter gift. Game should be beatable the same way for everyone, no matter the class or starter gift.

Going to let the disscussion go on a for a while, don't really have anything to say that I didn't already cover in the first post. Either way, I just felt the following needed to be said.

Both your arguments about Taurus are invalid, as that fight is completely optional, Master Key or not. By doing a jump to the lower Burg, you can reach Capra, and through the Depths you can get all the way to the Parish.

I'd say add a mention of these bosses to both the boss and optional boss page

I wouldn't count that Mats because that is making use of an exploit. Using exploits to skip bosses wouldn't make them optional. Regardless of that, my point still stands that Taurus, Priscilla, and Aldia are all optional and are not required to complete the game.

Luckystar, the Masterkey is available to everyone. Just because it is a starting gift does not render the shortcuts it provides invalid. Taurus is optional, and it is a common PvP practice to skip him so you can be invaded in Undead Burg.

I would say that semi-optional bosses is an extremely vague and mostly personal descriptor of certain bosses. If they can be skipped in the vanilla game without exploits and without a problem then they're optional, whereast if you can't get around them without problems or exploits they are required. I don't feel like there is any real grey area here, least of all enough to argue semi-optionality of bosses.

Here's my take on this, Bosses are optional or required. I don't see any need for a middle ground. To be able to fight Aldia, one must defeat another optional boss (Vendrick) which could be argued that one must defeat the Ancient Dragon as well for the 5th Giant Soul. Now, I know Ancient Dragon could be avoided, but the usaul route through to killing Vendrick usually consists of reducing his defenses all the way.

So, if Aldia were a semi-optional boss, would that make Vendrick (and possibly Ancient Dragon) semi-optional bosses as well? I don't feel that Aldia is anything more or less than an optional boss, I think of it as a more "true" ending when we do kill him, but I don't believe he causes enough impact to be anything more than optional or bonus.

However, with the Shrine of Winter's flexible opening criterion, I do feel that the Great Soul bosses could be considered "optional." I'm not proposing that we start labelling any boss that limits our ability to reach the end optional, but I do just want to throw that out there. With the Shrine of Winter's requirements, the only mandatory bosses would be Last Giant, Dragonrider Duo, Looking Glass Knight, Demon of Song, Velstadt, Guardian Dragon, Giant Lord, Throne Watcher and Defender, and Nashandra. However, it's generally accepted that the "true" way to reach the end of the game is via the four Great Souls.

Okay, I've rambled enough.About Aldia and Priscilla, I think we should just continue to label them as optional bosses. The credits can be reached without ever fighting Priscilla (or even stepping foot into the Painted World, for that matter) just as the credits can be reached without the player ever fighting Aldia and going through his list of requirements.

I'm sorry for the rambling as well as the essay, hopefully this will actually contribute to the conversation and not just confuse and/or disturb thought.

I'd like to see this discussion be finished up, so I'll let it stay open for now, please try to reach some sort of agreement :)

It doesn't appear like anyone supports the idea. As such, no action needs to be taken after the thread is closed, unless anything major shows up.