Board Thread:Dark Souls II/@comment-46.64.182.203-20140312230146/@comment-184.5.186.240-20140404011044

Amonynous wrote: That's a pretty cool theory, but

It hinges on someone randomly coming upon the first flame (which required the aid of one of the Primordial Serpents) and saying "oh look, a spear and a ring." It seems a bit too coincidental.

and also, souls have never showed signs of being able to alter people's minds. The CU possesed over a dozen Boss weapons (from souls much stronger than Ornstein's) and they never changed him the slightest bit.

Not saying your wrong, but there's nothing to back it up. First, I never claimed this theory was correct or even the most likely, only that given the evidence it was as possible as most other theories proposed.

Second, as long as we all remain civil, some polite point-counter point would be acceptable. Here are my counters.

The spear and ring are not necessarily in the Kiln of the First Flame at the end of DS. While the CU seems to have the "invisible backpack of unlimited holding", this is a common inventory trope in video games to make things easier for the player. Given the bulk and weight of the Dragonslayer Spear, it would be unlikely that the CU would lug it around unless it were their main weapon of choice. While it is a less likely explaination for the Leo Ring by itself, imagine how annoying it would be to have a dozen or so rings varying in size from wedding band to Superbowl ring in a pocket or pouch and then digging for the one you want (without accidently dropping one from time to time I might add).

Alternately, even if the items are in the Kiln at the end of DS, they did not have to stay there. A possible reason could be whatever or whoever cleaned up the rest armor, weapons, and equipment that should be scattered around a graveyard like Lordran. Seismic activity is also possible, given that there is no concrete answer for how much time has passed between the end of DS and the begining of DS 2. Active lava flows are found in both Lordran and Drangleic, meaning that, like Earth, the world of Dark Souls has a liquid mantle. In the real world it is not at all uncommon to find fossils of marine life hundreds of miles inland and well above sea level.

For the next owner picking them up, both are well crafted items. Even if the finder had no desire to keep them for themselves, the items are of a high enough quality to be worth taking to resell.

Lastly for the bleed effect from souls, this is the least likely part of the theory. However, to refute your points, how long did the journey of the CU take? One would feel a few years at most, even with time distortion in Lordran. The bleed effect may have taken decades, even on an ideal candidate. It could also be a matter of innoculation. The CU collected thousands, perhaps millions or billions, of souls in their quest. So the CU could just be used to keeping their mind intact with other souls, while the ODS may have not have even been undead (never merged with any other soul) when they got the spear. In that case it would simply be like the difference between having a robust immune system and one that has never had to faced any infection.

As for powerful souls not changing the CU at all. How do any of us know? The CU is a voiceless cypher, who's actions, demeanor, appearence, and even gender are solely dictated by the player that controls them. While your CU may have never waivered or altered during your playthroughs, many others could easily be in a state of constant flux.

P.S. If I sound teacherly or condescending, that is not at all my intent. Only trying to clearly state my ideas.