Talk:Watchtower Basement Key/@comment-1687225-20120926013423/@comment-6003396-20131218053105

I would be inclined to agree with you about Gwyn, but who knows, really. Going hollow is about losing your will to live. Maybe Gwyn lost his when he sacrificed his soul. It's not really in conflict with any existing lore, but it is speculative, of course. And I now understand what you mean about Havel fighting the Dragons. It was left to be pretty ambiguous at first, though.

Although the "Age of Dark" (age of men) started after the Age of Fire, and thus after the Dragons were defeated, it really is not known when humans came into existence. They could have very likely existed before the end of the war with the Dragons, and that the beginning of the Age of Dark signified when humans became the dominant race (similarly, the lords existed before the Age of Fire). Pharis's Hat seems to provide clues, but it can be interpreted in more than one way. Unless I missed or have forgotten something, there really is very little to go on in this regard, but there seems to be no reason to believe that humans did not exist alongside dragons, at one time.

If you consider Dark Souls II item descriptions: Dragonrider's Halberd, Dragonslayer's Crescent Axe, Black Hood. Although they don't state one way or another whether they belonged to humans, these items are (presumably) acquired outside of Lordran (all indications reveal that the game takes place in "Drangleic") and away from lords, giants, and deities (although there are allusions that state that giants entered this realm long ago). I'm not presenting this as concrete evidence either way, it's just interesting. Perhaps things will be made more clear when the game comes out.

And I'm not following you about Havel being the first human. You seem to be saying that either humans didn't exist before the end of the war with the dragons, or that Havel had to have been the first human? If anything, it is suggested that the Furtive Pygmy was (among) the first, since it is revealed that the Pygmy is the ancestor of the Chosen Undead (if we are to believe Kaathe).