Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-5632187-20130119213241/@comment-18016240-20140205031331

213.233.148.25 wrote: ZeroTo100 wrote: Here's a few theories I've had:Havel was planning to other-throw the gods. (not new)

I also think he was working with the Everlasting Dragon. The Great Magic Barrier found in Ash Lake can imply this. Also - it states on his shield that it is enchanted with his own unique type of magic - ancient magic he possibly could have learned from the Everlasting Dragon. Also, the R2 that gives you stone scales... may imply some type of "Dragon Magic".

Gwyn, being manipulated by Seath, could have locked Havel into his tower. Thus Seath's minions surrounding the tower.

Havel was my favorite lore character in this game. I seriously hate how little character development he got How about since he's a Bishop and the big church in the game is Llyods ie. the one that keeps sending the paladins... so there may be some link between Llyod and Havel's actions. What do we know about Llyod? Well his Church has undead hunts, he sends Paladins to try and rob the rit eof kindling, he has an item named after him that prevents the use of estus. Maybe Havel was his representative or at least the representative of his Church in Lordran. Maybe Seath's sorecery/experiments/powerbase was a threat or an of desecration in the eyes of those of Llyod's church.

Maybe Havel was organising a foray in to the archives and gets locked in the tower by his friend who hopes to save his life only for his friend to be killed in the ensuing backlash, when it went ahead without Havel, and Havel sentenced to imprisonment. Maybe Havel was the Bishop of the old Church and his actions meant it got abandoned and his Parish wiped out eliminating Llyod's powerbase. Llyod responds by declaring war and starts sending in Paladins first to provoke a rebellion, as Gywnn is now gone, and Llyod sees himself as the only real authority left. The rebellion/coup subsequently fails but not before pinwheel grabs power for himself (for whatever reasons). Leeroy gets to Nito who cuts down members of the rebellion/coup but uses up a lot of his remaining power to enslave/stop them leaving him unable to retake full control of the catacombs. He then decides to bide his time and regrow his power while Pinwheel is too distracted to press the attack, although it might be possible Nito was sending assasasins after Pinwheel which would give Pinwheel's actions a bit more logic as he goes on the attack after debating with himself/itself and comes to the conlusion we're an assassin of Nito or Llyod trying to rob the rite of kindling.

Going back to the dragon link, in ash lake, however it was possibly where he got the dragon tooth in the first place. The everlasting dragon obviously has no love for Seath who betrayed it and his kind. It culd have taught him some defence against magic as well. As far as the dragon tooth goes its quite interesting as one of the most famous myths is in Greek mythology about a guy named Cadmus whose sister god kidnapped by a God! So it could be possible Havel has a personal grudge because his sister may have been kidnapped by Seath for his experiments which dorve him to extreme lengths ie. seeking assistance from his ancient enemy.

Sorry for all the text :)

From the way Havel's story is told it seems like he was locked in a cell a while before this mess with the undead started and was before Lloyd's time, so the rite of kindling may not have existed yet and the paladins and Way of White might not have been in their current form.

Dunno where you're getting this from, but it looks more like Pinwheel is the result of some screwed up experiment led by Nito's followers or by someone trying to revive the dead to true human form, there's no evidence that says he was involved in anything that happened up in Lordran.

Our lack of knowledge on Havel's life means that no one knows if he had any family, all we know is that he was alive around the time of the War of the Ancients and hated Seath and dragons in general with a passion. In particular he was known to despise sorcery which was invented by the dragons so the thought of him using it for anything strikes a queer note in my ears. It's possible that his armor just has those properties due to it's materials or it might be blessed with obscure miraculous properties.