Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-99.232.137.239-20130829161234

I think what gets lost on some people about this about the Dark ending is that if you end the Age of Fire you are not only ending the age of the gods but also the undead. After all its fires where you restore yourself and restore your estus flasks. Without the age of fire won't all the undead go hollow? I'm a huge Wraith the Oblivion fan and there are a lot of similarities between Dark Souls, White Wolf Wraith and D & D Ravenloft. To me going hollow in Dark Souls is a lot like becoming a spectre in wraith. The Dark Lord ending has a special meaining for me because I have a very specific connotation for the phrase "Dark Lord". When the age of fire ends won't all undead essentially become hollow spectres or dissapear entirely? This may be an obvious point but it seems to get lost in alot of the lore discussions I've read. Another point that seems to be confused is that the gods can't be undead or hollow. This makes no sense to me as Gwyn is clearly at least dead; Gwyndolin is guarding his tomb after all. Or is Gwyn existing in the game just a time distortion? I'm just pointing this out because Kaathe seems to make sense but his ultimate goal to me seems to be to return all undead to the Abyss or Oblivion. Some people seem to think that walking away is the good ending and Kaathe is the only one working in your best interest. But in Dark souls there isn't good guys and bad guys; they're all bad or at least the bigshots are. To further confuse matters the first flame (as are all flames) is unlit when you get there and the Dark is already slowly consuming everything and the gods except for Gwyndolin (the dark moon) are either gone or dead.... so the age of fire is essentially already over; the fact that it still exists is a myth primarily perpetuated by Gwyndolin and Kaathe for very different reasons. While this may seem to contradict what I said earlier most undead in the game are in the process of becoming hollow and the four kings had already fallen to the abyss long before the story started and Manus has alrady consumed Ooaclite before the game started. Can someone clarify for me what Gwyn is actually doing at the Kiln of the first flame? It seems to me that he actually failed to sacrifice himself to light it and is an undead that has gone hollow there and that is in fact why the world is already in an Age of Darkness and he attacks you when you go there. Like all of his followers Gwynn seems to have been influenced by Kaathe and the Abyss already. After all even Frampt who was Gwynn's friend clearly wants you to go there and kill him so you can restore the fire yourself. Does anybody know what killed Gwyn? That's my primary point is that the Age of Fire is over at the start of the game and your mission seems to be to restore it (unless of course you side with Kaathe). My secondary point is that the age of fire is also the age of the undead and the reason why everyone is going hollow is that the flame isn't kindled. These seem to be obvious points to me but I've read a lot of lore discussions and watched a lot of lore videos and some people seem to have fallen for Kaathe's deceptions as all the key bosses in the game seem to have; while he is one of the only characters in the game who tells the truth like any great deceiver he isn't telling the complete truth. His goal seeems to be to me to ensure that you don't reverse what he has already accomplished; when you kill Gwynn and walk away from the fire you aren't becoming the first Dark Lord you are replacing the old one; Gwyn. Or more likely Kaathe is actually the Dark Lord and always has been and will continue to be unless you light the flame; he is simply feeding your ego because he knows you are a serious threat to the darkness he has already created. He's simply smart enough to know that he actually doesn't need to be the official ruler if his puppets are doing what he wants. Frampt wants you to restore a lost age not perpetuate an existing one. Signs that this is already the age of the dark are all throughout the game just as in Demon Souls; the worlds are full of tragedies that are already long over and just like Forlorn in Ravenloft your job is to shift through different time frames to figure out how those tragedies already happened

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