Board Thread:Lore Discussion/@comment-10167444-20130604182628/@comment-2600:1700:DE90:F110:0:0:0:49-20171227080313

I believe it's not necessarily the disposition of Frampt that led Kaathe to say he has lost his sense, but from the greed of Frampt. The way things are is that Frampt wants to be apart of the world of Gods being good friends with Gwyn. Of course that would mean that Frampt is indeed a traitor to the dragons, but it would also mean that he is greedily trying to be apart of a world that has succesfully repelled him. Kaathe is doing the exact same thing though, in a different sense. He's trying to be a part of the world in that he wants the world to be with the abyss to be with the dark. He was unsuccessful in that New Londo was destroyed by Ingward to suppress the Darkwraiths and the turn of the Four Kings, which may have been influenced by Velka. It would have sped up the Age of Dark if it worked succesfully. Kaathe wanted to essentially infect the world with the teachings of the Darkwraiths to be an opposition to Frampt and Gwyn, who he sees as a slayer to his kin, because he wants an Age of Dark where he can ally with the furtive pygmies who lay at the edge of the world. Where the Gods do not have power anymore, and the humans rule. Possibly to have an attempt at revitalizing the dragons, because then he and his kin would be an ally to the progenitor of the Furtive Pygmy, and therefore allowed to live as he pleases. The Pygmy warriors are seen in Dark Souls 3, they wear armor similar to the Darkwraiths as a symbol that they have chosen the dark against the Gods for not crediting them in the fall of the dragons.

Someone also brought up the fact that Frampt is seemingly greedy with how he devours items in return for souls. It's like he has no desire for souls, and that he feeds off this new age that Gwyn and the others has created, and anything that reminds him of before the flame; crystals, Seath, darkwraiths, Kaathe, etc all disgust him since he doesn't give you many souls for them. He must hold some memory for his own kin, because it seems that the other dragon-kin weapons do not follow this pattern. Maybe he finds a piece of sympathy for the destruction of his own kind, and values the other ancestors of dragons like the drakes, because they are like him who have found a way to live in this world that only seeks to destroy him. It also may paint clues as to why the drakes outside of New Londo are there, because that is the closest thing to home for them which is near where both Kaathe and Frampt reside.

Something else to bring up is that Kaathe likely doesn't intend to disown Frampt in the dark ending, because without him it would be very unlikely for the Chosen Undead to even know of the lordvessel. Whether or not the giant crow is affiliated with Frampt or Gwyn is unknown, but it may be likely that the crow brings you to Firelink initially, because that is a safe location near a bonfire lit by a Fire Keeper. Maybe that's where the crow takes all of the descendants of the Furtive Pygmy. Maybe it's literally because it's the crow's nesting spot? Who knows? Frampt is right there, and it seems he was created a safe place to live at, because he was friends with Gwyn. It would be away from anyone who would ever try to kill him, and it was obvious that anyone who ever went to the Firelink Shrine would be averse to Frampt, because of how the crestfallen reacted. I had a theory that the crestfallen was an envoy for Kaathe, and that he was there only to guide the Chosen Undead. He likely was going to tell Kaathe that Frampt was awakened, and ended up hollowing. Another thing is that if Firelink Shrine is meant for Frampt, and any new Chosen Undead to follow the path to be kindle to prevent the Age of Fire from petering out, then that means Anastacia is only there to serve Frampt and the Chosen Undead. That would implicate the giant crow as well. The crestfallen has a line saying "They probably cut her tongue out back in her village, so that she'd never say any god's name in vain." The dots connect with Gwyn creating Firelink for Frampt and any newcomer Chosen Undead, and caging Anastacia to kindle the bonfire, and reinforce the Estus flask for them. She also speaks about Frampt telling her about you after you revive her. It would make Knight Lautrec a damn hero if you're in opposition to the Gods.

That's about as much as I researched, but I believe that I fall on the side of the Pygmies and Kaathe on this one. I believe that the discredit that Gwyn made to the humans in the war against the dragons was shitty, and keeping the Age of Fire going was not meant to be. The cycle was going to happen one way or another, and the arrogance and greed of both Gwyn and Frampt is hard to defend for me.